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Science and Mathematics for Engineering, 6th Edition [] x. Finite Mathematics 7th Ed gnv64 x. Am I missing something? Yup, you sure ARE missing something! And this is after adjusting all of these numbers for inflation, so the amounts will pay for roughly the same lifestyle in the future as they do today. Without the concept of money earning money, there would be no such thing as early retirement and no such thing as rich people.

Both concepts would be impossible. Ed January 14, , pm. Thx for clearing that up. It is an interesting table. This might be an interesting place to start or combine with high dividend stocks. Yabusame January 13, , pm. My savings percentage has taken a big hit recently. Although the ultimate aim is to grow my income by multiples of what it was, it means taking a major cut in salary right now. Nate January 13, , pm. If you know the percentage of your take home pay that you live on, then why does it matter how much you take home each year?

It seems that your calculations are only a function of this percentage, not your take home pay each year. I tried to make it sound as simple as possible, but yet you have simplified it even further. Fishingmn January 14, , am.

Recently updated studies using the last few turbulant years have cast doubts about it and suggested numbers as low as 2. If the Safe Withdrawal Rate declines to even 3. MMM January 14, , pm. I understand the desire to be conservative, but I would still totally disagree with the idea of going for an even lower SWR. Fishingmn January 15, , am. Ari April 22, , pm. It might surprise you to learn that many of the portfolios studied did not even last that long!

The single biggest risk that retirees face is longevity risk. Dividend Mantra January 14, , pm. Your spreadsheet and chart simply reinforce what I already knew. I started my journey to FI at 28 and plan to reach it by Loved this article. I worked our stash out and all we made this year was 2.

I am very new to learning all about investing and ERE, so can somehow help me out here. Makee January 16, , pm. Hi Mr. Money Moustache! I stumbled onto your blog via Early Retirement Extreme. Your article inspires me to keep on saving by keeping the end in mind: not only am I working towards a comfortable early retirement, I also enjoy the peace of mind that comes from having a solid emergency fund.

Makee January 17, , pm. Johonn April 3, , pm. How did you get that referral link from Mint. Money Mustache April 3, , pm. Last year I got the blog signed up for a couple of affiliate programs — if you want the inside scoop, feel free to email me through the contact button. Commission Junction is a well-known one, you can visit that directly as well. Thanks for the reply, I see. RichUncle EL June 4, , am. Russell August 27, , pm. Money Mustache August 27, , pm.

Thanks Russell! Yes, all articles their comments section active forever, so thanks for letting me know. So I replaced it with a. Captain and Mrs Slow November 29, , am. BTW I mentioned this to Derek in an email but almost no bloggers talk about saving.

So when I first read this I thought it was all BS!!!! Freeyourchains December 20, , am. We just measure what we see, experiment, and base understanding on what we discover. The vast majority of the Universe is a complete mystery to us. At Warp 8, you can be there in 3 seconds or 7 days, respectively. Thus achieving interstellar and intergalactic travel within minutes.

That is just a theory to get you intrigued in all these mysteries, that many people are unaware of, or will not ever question. Kyle April 19, , pm. Chris January 18, , am. Where should I be investing? Where and how should I be investing that money sitting in my savings?

Money Mustache January 18, , am. Hi Chris.. I started saving for retirement in I have perfect data on the dollar amount and date of every single retirement contribution I have ever made. I have saved for retirement pretty consistently since then, and that consistency has been affected only by things that would reasonably affect anyone. I was able to save a little more when times were good, and I had to save a little bit less when times were bad.

This means that the average retirement investor tends to buy into the market more when it is up, and less when it is down. What that means is that after inflation, a reasonable investment schedule over the last twenty years would mean a performance of about 0. The market is different than it was thirty years ago. It is volatile and automated, and trading programs chase each other up and down the board. Money Mustache January 19, , pm. Many stock market cynics do calculations like this based on the quote price of the index itself, while neglecting the real reason we own stocks: the flow of cash they provide in the form of dividends.

If anyone has a better tool that can do the same calculation for a stream, let us know. Most of my own retirement stock holdings were bought between and Not the cheapest years to buy shares, but not awful, looking at the market value today. You are right about the dividends. I knew about dividends and adjusted close, and wrote my library to use adjusted close.

At your response, I double-checked my library, and… it is using the non-adjusted close now. I re-ran my analysis using adjusted close. What sucks is that I have based many of my own financial strategies off of the previous numbers, so I have to rethink a lot of things. My retirement investing started on June 30, I did a Wolfram Alpha query for the inflation since then, and it came back with That works out to an APY of 2. As of today, the APY of that approach would be 6. If you subtract inflation, that would be 3.

Especially since when you look at my historical graph of APY rates, most of my data points are below 3. Judging by my graph, it would appear my median APY of monthly data points would be lower. I think a reasonable-but-conservative estimate would be 2. Using 2. Erich April 30, , am. John April 29, , pm. How do you plan to pay for long term care when you and your wife need it? Michal May 9, , am. Just a short question: if I pay mortgage on our primary house, does that count as an expense or saving?

Thanks in advance. Agent9 May 9, , pm. I like having a fixed living cost and more flexibility with investments for the extra cash. Having said that, when plugging in figures into retirement spreadsheets I leave out the value of my primary residence and just include all payments as expenses. In fact, housing payments are a hedge against inflation with this method because we only use fixed rate mortgages.

George May 9, , pm. The house itself is an asset, worth whatever the current market value might be. Payments to the mortgage are a combination of two things — interest pure expense and principal reduction which reduces the loan balance and is a form of saving. So, I guess the answer to your question is that mortgage payments are both saving and expense. Except the expense portion is a lot larger at the beginning and goes down as you pay down the loan balance.

Stuart May 17, , pm. I think early retirement is a great goal to have, but I think some of the assumptions are a bit rosy. Who can forget ? Then Calamos cut their dividend from 14 cents a share to 9. Ok, the markets have come back, but it took five years and the interest rates are way down. Calamos still pays 9. My point is that nothing is sure in life, and what you think is enough and safe might not be.

I guess that means save more than you think you will need and spend less than you think you can. Maybe that will require you to work longer than you think you need to. You said who can forget ? Also, if you are in the accumulation phase, did not matter because you were not selling shares, you were buying them as aggressively as possible right? So the shares you had in have now fully recovered in price, in addition to the buying you did during that downturn has put you ahead.

Kat October 13, , am. Looking at trying to crunch the numbers for my husband and myself. I am wondering, do we count in the contributions our employers put into retirement accounts for us toward the percentage we are saving? David October 31, , am. Almost all of the comments above address the contribution side of what is proposed. The unstated assumption here is that your cost of living before retirement is satisfactory after retirement. In theory, it should be. However, if you cut your spending so as to be able to contribute more, will you make your life less comfortable than you prefer?

And then consider you will be living this minimalist lifestyle for maybe 60 or 70 years. No cable TV. No lattes. Really, there has to be consideration for the lifestyle required after retirement in determining the saving level. George October 31, , pm. The reality is quite the opposite. There are lots of people who spend tons of cash, but are miserable. Many of us have discovered that a simple life, with a few luxuries here and there, is far better than wasting cash on lattes and cable TV.

Netflix and home-brewed coffee are far cheaper and just as enjoyable. David November 2, , pm. Of course you are right, but what I was trying to point out is that the article seems to assume that the lifestyle you are living while you are working is the one you want to live after you retire. If you make sacrifices i. Now when you are working, you may not have much opportunity for having coffee. My retired friends think it is great if they run into someone to sit down and have a coffee.

They have the time to do this. But it is an expense they did not have while working. My point is that somewhere in this analysis you have to look at the lifestyle you want to live after you retire. Jason November 5, , pm. True, but you also can account for expenses you no longer have when you retire. This can also multiply if you were having to live in a higher cost area to be close to your job and can now move to a lower cost area.

If you still drove to work you can largely ditch your car outside special trips not possible on a bike, a huge savings right there. So yes, you might want a more expensive lifestyle in some ways after retirement, but you can also offset the shift financially by effectively reallocating your expenses from work needs to personal wants; a nice change! Or just have a bigger safety margin. That, after all, is one of the fundamental principles of this philosophy.

Exactly what standard of living requirements are worth sacrificing that much of your time or life? David November 6, , pm. All valid points, and you demonstrate my argument. I have a couple of friends nearing retirement who track everything they spend in detail, so as to know what they will and will not be spending after retirement. People also should not regard work only as a chore that has no redeeming benefit, and that you should get out of as soon as possible.

Work provides many benefits that are not financial. There are social aspects, educational opportunities, satisfaction with completing a project and so on. For example, I thoroughly enjoyed my first 23 years of work. I had the intention of working forever, never retiring.

I got to meet lots of interesting people, do interesting things and play with the best toys in the land I worked in computing. I never could have afforded to buy any of the equipment we were running. Then we got new management and it all went downhill. So they got rid of me, and I have been working as a part time consultant ever since.

I had a fair number of investments at that stage which have enabled me to live quite comfortably, but the consulting still gave me the benefits of working. Jason November 7, , am. Yes, the intended lifestyle after retirement can matter, but my point was that there are enough offsets in both directions that you can largely consider that a rounding error.

Your current expenses are still a good proxy for what your retirement expenses will be. In fact, for the MMM lifestyle the differences are probably much smaller than for most. Then, as you get close to the goal, you can start working out the details of said rounding errors and work a bit longer or shorter to accomodate, similar to what your friends are doing.

Gives you more flexibility and optionality. Since most people will include a mix of bonds in their portfolio, the expected return on the whole portfolio only goes lower. It is also very possible that the Fed keeps short term interest rates very low for a long time — it has happened before. As a result, I think using a 2. However, as pointed out, any expense saving has a huge multiplier applied to saving needed. And having expense flexibility is a point that is often overlooked.

I do think it will be super hard for the vast majority of people to have the investment discipline to stick with equity investments when the press, friends, etc. That might even be more hard than maintaining expense control. I retired from full time work about 18 months ago. Money Mustache January 22, , pm. Taking tabs on the market in well into a long bull run always results in lower forecast growth. It happens this way all the time, right?

On the other hand, rental houses in some areas are still great, and even Lending Club still seems to be doing very well for me. Rebecca February 19, , am. Lots to think about. In your opinion is it worth it for the stay at home parent to get a meager part time job or not? Those discussion deserve their place, but they make the target of an early retirement blurry and they should be put aside intially and only put back once a big stash has been accumualted.

Sam Scully May 31, , pm. If you simplify and assume that the safe withdrawal rate and interest rate on savings are equal, then you get this very simple formula:. There are so many different factors in a realistic model though, that I think this probably gives a good enough estimate for most people. I can show the derivation of this formula if anyone is interested. Money Mustache June 1, , pm. Sounds like a neat trick.. Mike June 5, , pm. Eva July 15, , am. Hi, this is the first time I found this blog, I read 5 articles in it so far, all very interesting.

I start by saying that I do not live in US so some things do no apply. I am currently 35 years old. I am working full time for 10 years now. I have my own apartment, fully paid off. And I have saved 6 times my yearly spending, so I still have a very long way to go to get to My question is about investments. Where should I invest my money, so when I get to retire I will have the money working for me.

Thank you for any pointers. Dang December 17, , am. Not worth the risk or time. McDuffy August 6, , pm. A lot of the comments seem to address specific strategies to convert daily observed numbers into averages so as to better apply the plot. Two questions: 1. With your own experiential arguments that spending drops in early phases of retirement, it seems unlikely that average real spend is exactly before and after retiring.

What would a retired mustachian at various ages today spend and how would that average spend compare to pre-retirement spend? I cannot believe I am so close! FYI: I have saved about 14 months of take home pay, or a little over 2 years of living expenses.

Does that mean I get to shave 2 years off the total remaining working years, or does that also compound to shave off even more than 2 years? How might we estimate our needs if we plan on retiring to a state with lower taxes and lower cost of living? I need to live here to earn a bunch more money than I could in any other state. Daniel August 19, , pm. I love this post and have never thought about what I need to retire comfortably as a percentage of my current take home pay, savings rate, and expense rate.

I do have one question though. How do you figure in contributions to a K from a company match? Mathieu August 28, , pm. For the calculation to work, you simply add back the match to your top-line income. But if you use Mint or otherwise track your expenses properly, you can just use that figure. You can use that figure as denominator.

DoItYourself August 22, , am. That is over a ratio! Now, I understand that as your spending gets lower and lower, it gets harder and harder to trim fat. But, I think the important thing is that trading your time to save money is more powerful than than trading your time to make money. High income and savings rate people that hire a house cleaner and claim their time is better spent at work than cleaning their house are wrong.

McDuffy August 22, , am. Good point on the ratio while in the saving phase. To keep things non-promotional, please use a real name or nickname not Blogger My Blog Name. The most useful comments are those written with the goal of learning from or helping out other readers — after reading the whole article and all the earlier comments.

Take a look around. If you think you are hardcore enough to handle Maximum Mustache, feel free to start at the first article and read your way up to the present using the links at the bottom of each article. For more casual sampling, have a look at this complete list of all posts since the beginning of time or download the mobile app.

Go ahead and click on any titles that intrigue you, and I hope to see you around here more often. Jan 13, comments The Shockingly Simple Math Behind Early Retirement This is the blog post that shows you how to be wealthy enough to retire in ten years. You might also like:. Finally, a Stock Market Crash!

Inflation — Should We Be Worried? Want More? Very Nice… Facebook. Random Article! Gerard January 13, , am I like the simplicity of this. Hope that helps anyone as I was a bit confused at first when I was calculating my savings rate!

Note that I include employer match as well. Perhaps MR MM could have been clearer on this point. Great article. People like to work during 40 year spans, I think. Thanks for that! I appreciate the input…. And i can definitely retrieve less from the RRSPs than the lowest taxable bracket — especially with the mortgage paid… Good stuff.

Take the security that comes with a paid off house and save other money to invest. It works great. Absolutely, good points. Jeff: Wow, that 3. But I will point out these three things: — Pessimism about market returns is unusually high due to the Great Recession and the irrational human recency effect right now.

Self-discipline is a must. And remember too, the more you save into RRSPs, the lower your net tax rate becomes. Am I making an errors here? Any other thoughts or comments on this? If your interested, I could sanitize my spreadsheet and post it… mike. Thanks a million maybe literally for the inspiration! You have a good plan, though. Agree with you here George. You mentioned that the time to reach retirement depends on only two factors: — how much you take home each year — what percentage of this you can live on If you know the percentage of your take home pay that you live on, then why does it matter how much you take home each year?

Thanks for the correction, I just updated the article. THEN, try to tell me you are still afraid to quit your job. Good stuff. Best wishes! So thanks! Thanks for the reply.

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